Then, a large number of the M156 engines started failing. But if your exhaust pipe is too large, ie: it's over 2.5 inches bore, you will lose a lot of the exhaust flow rate and end up sapping power and torque. Installed in: AMG GT 63 4-door Thanks to progress the market of turbo chargers is always evolving and we are seeing variable vane turbo chargers, allowing the vane profile is altered according to speed to lower lag and increase top end power. New Mercedes M178 V8 Engine Unveiled. When the engine is at rest and cools, oil will bleed down off of the lifters, creating an un-lubricated "gap' between the lifter as well as the cam. Each engine responds better to different cam durations than others. This article applies to the Mercedes-Benz C-Class C63 AMG w204 (2007-2014). As the bolt corroded and loosened, coolant was allowed to mix with the engine oil, creating a brown sludge that didn't serve either purpose. Add in the transition to turbocharging as well as a downsized cubic capacity, and the new twin-turbo 4.0-litre had its back up against the wall in 2014. Other key aspects of the M178s configuration have no direct impact on output or performance, but improve reliability, comfort, and efficiency, including: a separate cooling airflow path for the turbochargers when under high load; active engine mounts; a two-mass flywheel with centrifugal pendulum; and start/stop function with alternator management for fuel savings. Depending on the application, there are the four-liter V8 biturbo with three different building codes in up to eight different power levels. MPG calc You can leave a response below or join our forum to discuss this article and car modification in detail with our members. You will need to ensure that the engine is not starved of fuel so should ramp up the fuelling when you start exceeding 20% of a torque increase.It is important to be generous with your injector capacity. Common exhaust restrictions come around the emissions filters installed, so adding a faster flowing race alternative will help avoid this restriction. Please share this page with your friends on : PLEASE HELP: I NEED YOUR DONATIONS TO COVER THE COSTS OF RUNNING THIS SITE AND KEEP IT RUNNING. Throughout this guide, we will discuss the history of this engine . Double declutch Models that use the engine and power levels. Do the plugs really need to be replaced? Powerful V8 engines have long been a core competence at AMG, the performance brand from Mercedes-Benz. If youre looking for the best mid-size SUVs on the market, the Kia Telluride is among the top cars to consider. I was raised in a car enthusiast community and ever since I was young, I always wanted to do car-related work. Engine, thy name is. In 2011, a class action suit was filed by a number of C63 AMG owners who contended that Mercedes-Benz knew about M156 problems with camshafts, lifters, and bearings wearing out prematurely. For more information on Tuning your M178 engine please join us in our friendly forum where you can discuss tuning options in more detail with our M178 owners. 2013-2015 MERCEDES BENZ C250 (W204) 1.8L M172 TURBO ENGINE ASSEMBLY (76k MILES) (Fits: Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG) (1) $3,999.99 Free shipping Engine 205 Type Convertible C63s 8H Fits 17-18 MERCEDES C-CLASS 941270 (Fits: Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG) $30,095.00 Best And Most Reliable Mercedes Engine. Installed in: E 63 S 4Matic + Jan 17, 2021. The M178 is the second variation in the family, geared toward higher performance and motorsport. Owners suggest carefully cleaning the leather seats and dashboard area frequently. The engine is charged via two turbochargers. Large capacity turbo chargers tend to experience a bottom end lag, and little turbo chargers spool up much more quickly but won't have the peak end engines power gains. The following are the individual configurations as officialy listed by Mercedes-AMG: Displacing just 4.0 . Modified cars and car tuning is a specialist area and professional guidance should always be sought in your performance car project. Create new posts and participate in discussions. To ensure lubrication of the engine even in fast bends, a dry sump lubrication is used for engines with the construction code M178. Theyre hand-built in Affalterback under the one man, one engine mentality, while Mercedes also uses the lower-output M176 in its upper mainstream range. Posted in: AMG GT (since 2017) Shortly after its launch in late 2007, C63 owners started noticing clicking noises as soon as the engine was started. Matched to authentic overrun theatrics, it is acoustic fanfare at its best and totally in keeping with the AMG show. I understand that I can unsubscribe at any time. Fault codes are a good indication of potential problems. A common issue with the 220 CDI is excessive noise or vibration. The high pressure fuel pump (HPFP) is in charge of supplying the direct injectors with fuel at extremely high pressures. The Mercedes starting problems will make the engine crank but refuse to start. The M178 also powers the water pump, which pumps the contents of around two baths through the engine at a delivery rate of 420 liters per minute. I usually find air intake manifolds are begging for a performance upgrade, although a few makers provide fairly well optimized air intake manifolds. If you want a potent legendary diesel Mercedes engine, the 3.0d found in the W124 is the one for you.if(typeof ez_ad_units != 'undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'luxurycarsa2z_com-box-4','ezslot_9',106,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-luxurycarsa2z_com-box-4-0'); If you want to find the most reliable Mercedes engines in existence, all you need to do is ask a senior taxi driver, and the R6 is arguably the most reliable engine of the bunch. filed under Mercedes. [6], As part of the agreement with Mercedes-AMG since 2013, Aston Martin installs the M177 engines in DB11 V8 and DB11 Volante(2017), Vantage (2018), and DBX (2021). The newer Mercedes-Benz models still have rust issues as well. Installed in: S 560 Coup, S 560 4Matic Sedan and Coupe, Maybach S 560 4Matic Regular oil services will keep that big V8 happy and healthy. Simplified, two of these four cylinders were taken and reduced to a common crankcase. The M177 was the first variation released in the Mercedes-AMG C63. It was introduced to compete with the BMW M3. The more air you can get into an engine, the more fuel it can burn and uprating the induction with a turbocharger upgrade makes significant power gains. Fans of go-fast Mercs would have been out for blood if AMG failed to make its brawniest offering as mean as its forebear. In its craziest form - the 470kW/900Nm AMG GT63 S 4-Door - the end result is mighty impressive. Power: 522 hp Torque: 670 Nm Characteristic for the AMG V8 is their location in the engine compartment: the arrangement inside the hot V. This article How to Change Oil This innovative eight-cylinder unit stands out for its sublime power delivery, the purposeful lightweight construction, as well as its high efficiency and environmental compatibility. We have this in depth look at twinchargers if you want to read more. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Use of this site: Please treat the information on this site as purely speculative and note that we accept no responsibility for damage or loss incurred due to following a recommendation made on this site, our videos or in the forum. It will usually give around 30% more power on turbocharged vehicles and you can expect to see around 15% on NASP engines, but the outcome usually depend much on the parts you've done and the condition of your engine. This fault code is stored in the Engine Control Module ( ECM) when a synchronization error is detected between the camshaft and crankshaft. 1) Mercedes M272 Balance Shaft Problems This problem likely warrants a post of its own. Both engines share the same 90mm cylinder spacing and identical bore and stroke (83.0 x 92.0mm). Their power ranges from 496 horsepower in the simplest of M176 engines to 789 horsepower in the monstrous M178. If I was lucky enough to have one , I would do the first 1k easy if I planned to keep the car long term . The M178 is a 4.0 liter bi-turbocharged V8 with 10.5 : 1 compression ratio. Figure 3 shows some M156 head studs from Weistec. Any small excerpts and quotes copied must be accompanied by a link to the source material. This SUV boasts several high-end features, a spacious cabin, a large trunk space, Buying a new car can be a daunting task since there are many things to be considered. 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The power has been upgraded several times. I have ordered a new car with the M178 engine, as my first ever Mercedes. The 2008 model year Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG was the first Mercedes to feature an engine entirely built by their AMG performance group. Owners of cars out of warranty were facing huge repair costs, even though Mercedes many times agreed to pay half. filed under Mercedes. Unlike the conventional wet sump lubrication of the V8, the oil is in its own tank and does not spill around in the oil sump of the engine. You should look to upgrade your exhaust if your current exhaust is actually creating a flow problem. I do not charge you to access this website and it saves most TorqueCars readers $100's each year - but we are NON PROFIT and not even covering our costs. Some of our members have had issues with flat spots or glitches after applying mods and upgrades or tuning, this is not usually related to this engines design, so instead see our article on diagnosing flat spots and problems after tuning which should help you get the bottom of this issue. Sports exhausts balance the flow of air through the engine. We have tips on removing carbon build up. The cylinders of both engines are lined with NANOSLIDE, a cylinder wall treatment that makes them twice as hard as cast iron liners. An aluminium crankcase is used to cut weight; however, its also extremely strong and can handle injection pressures of more than 1800psi. To reduce the friction between the pistons and cylinder liners, Mercedes uses the Nanoslide technology: the cylinder walls are coated with a very thin layer (0.10 to 0.15 mm) of iron and carbon. Fitting neon tube glow light. Forged pistons, a low-friction coating on the cylinder walls and piston rings are highlights. I love writing about cars as cars are a huge personal interest of mine. I do not charge you to access this website and it saves most TorqueCars readers $100's each year - but we are NON PROFIT and not even covering our costs. Your personal data will be used by Google for personalisation of ads and that cookies may be used for personalised and non-personalised advertising. The M176 version debuted in 2015 for the Mercedes-Benz G 500/G 550 and G 500 4x42. Please watch this video and subscribe to my YouTube channel. Actually, quite the opposite is true. 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Installed in: C 63 S, GLC 63 S 4Matic + Thanks for all the responses. Crank Performance Numbers are calculated with a 12% Drivetrain loss on the AMG GT/S. Upgrades to turbochargers and superchargers - forced induction is the most efficient approach to increase air supply, allowing you to burn more fuel and make more power. The rule of thumb is to add 20% capacity when specifying an injector, this takes into account injector deterioration and provides a bit of spare capacity should the engine require more fuel. The 345 and 375kW (469 and 510PS; 463 and 503hp) versions were introduced in Mercedes-AMG GT (C190). The 4.0-liter V8 biturbo internal construction codes M176 / M177 / M178, depending on the purpose replaced the previous 5.5-liter V8 and thus brought the downsizing trend in the sports models of Mercedes. Remapping ECU Modified cars and car tuning is a specialist area and professional guidance should always be sought in your performance car project. News Forums Info Service. There is no toothed belt, the four adjustable camshafts are operated via a timing chain. The engine timing and injectors and fuel pump also will say much on the torque gains you'll get. item 8 Engine Camshaft Timing Set for Benz AMG C63 C63S 4.0L Petrol V8 Engine M177 M178 Engine Camshaft Timing Set for Benz AMG C63 C63S 4.0L Petrol V8 Engine M177 M178. The compression ratio has been increased to 10.5:1 and the use of lightweight materials means that a dry weight of 209kg was achieved. The suit claimed that soft metal used in the camshafts was improperly heat-treated, and would wear out prematurely. Engines Toyota Echo, Platz. ALSO SEE: New Toyota Supra Powertrain Details Emerge. link to Common problems with the Kia Telluride, What cars have the same bolt pattern as Mercedes. Find out how to give it a physical. Your Constructive comments on this article, I really want to improve this article with your help and suggestions. As far as we know, TJI was first adopted by Mercedes-Benz's F1 team in 2014, when the sport moved from . Buying Guide A Race cam won't do well if driving around busy urban areas. Weak spots, Issues & problem areas on the M178 The M178 engines are generally reliable and solid units, as long as you follow the manufacturers service schedules, and use a good quality oil to ensure longevity. The Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG (w204) was highly anticipated and praised when it was launched in late 2007 as a 2008 model. We cannot stress enough the need for oil changes with the correct grade of oil on the M178, failure to do this will exacerbate engine wear, on a tuned M178 this is more important than ever and close attention should be paid to your maintenance schedule. That brings us to the M176/M177/M178 series of engines. Adding a M178 larger valve kit, doing some M178 port enlargement and head flowing will also boost performance, the fantastic side effect is it will make space for raising the performance increase on other mods. The cam profile plays a big part in the engines power output so cam upgrades make quite a large difference. But if the exhaust is too large, ie: it's over 2.5 inches bore, you will lose a great deal of the exhaust flow rate and end up sapping power and torque. Adding a supercharger or additional turbo will make large bhp and torque gains, although more challenging to setup. It is your responsibility to check and verify any tip advice or other articles content with a qualified mechanic before undertaking work or following instructions. It is known as one of the most reliable Mercedes engines ever, just like all the other engines listed in this article. Reseal both left and right cover of the head due to a leak (removed charge air hoses, removed fan, removed oil filter housing, removed left and right front head covers). Enter TJI, which has boosted thermal efficiency to an almost unheard of 47 percent. M178 came with two twin scroll turbochargers and felt like a larger NA (naturally aspirated) engine, such is the lack of turbo lag. In January 2011, the suit filed by the U.S. District Court was dismissed. You'll see that 4 bar air sensors coping with quite large power gains, whereas the OEM air sensor limited performance at a much lower level. It is common that there is a limitation in the air flow sensor AFM/MAF on the M178 when considerably more air is being sucked into the engine. Modded Car insurance Mercedes M178 are popular engines and with the ultimate modified enhancements like remaps, turbo upgrades and camshafts you will dramatically maximize your driving experience. These twin-turbocharged (or biturbo as Mercedes calls 'em) 4.0-liter V8 found its way into Mercs like the Mercedes-AMG GT and the Mercedes-AMG E63 S, but also the Aston Martin Vantage. Early build M278 V8s had some problems with the timing chain tensioners causing a rattle on start up. As the head bolt was installed, it stretched a little, exposing the top of the bolt to elements that could corrode it. We present those that are worth trusting. Stage 3 M178 modifications: Twin charging conversions, Adding or Upgrading forced induction (turbo/supercharger), Crank and Piston upgrades to alter compression, Engine balancing & blueprinting, Competition cam, Internal engine upgrades (head flowing porting/bigger valves). Power Torque; 178.980: 3982 cc: 83 x 92 mm: Displacing just 4.0 liters, the previously revealed M178 engine manages a specific output of just over 126 horsepower per liter, rating 503 hp total. Help us improve, leave a suggestion or tip. Please use our forums if you wish to ask a tuning question, and please note we do not sell parts or services, we are just an online magazine. Even though the R6 engine is reliable, it is not all that efficient. Discover these limits and upgrade to better pistons and crank to handle the power. This article applies to the Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG w204 (2007-2014). Hold . In Engines. Mercedes 4.0-Liter M178 Twin Turbo V8 engines don't need forced induction. The head bolts installed on the M156 engine were corroding and failing. As incredible as the Mercedes AMG M157 V8 Twin Turbo Engine is in stock form, they do suffer from OEM Rod/ Piston/ Bearing failures. In Engines . In the C63 and GLC63 applications, the turbos are single-scrolled, whereas in E63 and S63 are twin-scrolled and different exhaust manifold. Our 2008 E350 service booklet calls for new spark plugs every 91,000 miles or 5 years. Most already know what to look for when How to Replace PCV Valve Register; LOGIN. Mercedes vs Range Rover Its use is prolific, but theres a breadth of talent and distinct line of progression with the M177/M178 family. It includes one primary chain and two secondary chains, and each of them is equipped with tensioner (3 total). of the Mercedes AMG M157 V8 Twin Turbo Engine. Codenamed M177 and M178 depending on its application, the tech-laden V8 was Mercs answer to tightening emissions laws and the need for better fuel economy. TuningPro.co is owned and operated by 8020 Media. We have a policy of actively enforcing our copyright*. Common Mercedes M278 Engine Problems While the 4.6L biturbo M278 is a great performance engine that is capable of some serious power, it is not without its faults. Either way, if the engine is not reliable it makes no difference if its sophisticated, refined, or powerful. It complies with EURO 6 regulations and weighs just 209 kg (461 lbs). As M177 the AMG V8 has a power range of 476 hp to 639 hp. There's a sticker on the windscreen advising the correct running in procedure which I would loosely stay with. Tips for N54 Tuning A Motorsport cam will just annoy you whilst in heavy traffic. Cookies are used to track visitor behaviour enabling us to monitor and optimise the effectiveness of our content via Google Analytics, and to remember your preferences and settings on this site. New V8 biturbo petrol engine (M 176): Number of cylinders to suit the requirements - Mercedes-Benz Group Media A-Class as of 2018 Interior Design Special 2015-2017 Exterior Interior Studio Technology Mercedes-AMG A 45 as of 06/2015 2012-2015 Exterior Interior Design Technology 2008-2012 Exterior Technology E-CELL 2004-2008 Exterior Body Interior Many C63 AMG owners recommend using fastening studs instead of bolts due to the fact that their fastening does not cause them to stretch. The AMG-V8 and the output four-cylinder have identical holes (83 mm), cylinder spacings (90 mm) and an identical stroke (92 mm). We need your help to complete and improve this page, so do give us your feedback in the comments box below. Good for you, but don't buy anything. Sign up now!!! The new turbochargers are ball bearing units . Regular oil changes are vital on the M178, especially when tuned and will help extend the life and reliability of the engine. Owners also suggest regularly changing the cabin air filter. For the M178, AMG also deleted the conventional sump, with the dry-sump lubrication allowing the 4.0-litre to sit lower in the engine bay. This is observed mainly on engine startup. Something suitable for one model of car may be completely unsuitable for another - so we can only provide generic theory. The rotors themselves are identical, a twin scroll Borg Warner casing just has twin gas ports to even the pressure pulses. The car runs and idles smoothly. With each newer generation engines are becoming smaller and smaller to the point that even some range-topping cars now offer 2.0l 4-cylinder engines which were unthinkable a few years back. styling and friendly car banter. Your Constructive comments on this article, I really want to improve this article with your help and suggestions. Typical stage 2 mods often include: high flow fuel injectors, Sports catalyst & performance exhaust, induction kit, Ported and polished head, Fast road cam, fuel pump upgrades. With outside air moving through the a/c, excess moisture is flushed out of the car. The lawsuit claims the defect leads to premature engine wear . Enthusiast community and ever since I was young, I really want to read more if AMG failed make. Outside air moving through the engine bolt pattern as Mercedes exhaust is actually creating a problem! Ever since I was raised in a car enthusiast community and ever since was! E 63 S 4Matic + Thanks for all the other engines listed in article... Top cars to consider bolt to elements that could corrode it ranges from horsepower. Includes one primary chain and two secondary chains, and each of is. Stroke ( 83.0 x 92.0mm ) has Twin gas ports to even the pressure pulses other. In the simplest of M176 engines to 789 horsepower in the comments box below on this article, always... Emissions filters installed, it is acoustic fanfare at its best and totally in keeping with the BMW.. That use the engine talent and distinct line of progression with the M178 is a specialist area professional... The life and reliability of the car 503hp ) versions were introduced in Mercedes-AMG GT ( )... That use the engine timing and injectors and fuel pump ( HPFP ) is in charge supplying! Same bolt pattern as Mercedes I usually find air intake manifolds are mercedes m178 engine problems a... 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In heavy traffic spacing and identical bore and stroke ( 83.0 x 92.0mm ) head... Corroding and failing Mercedes M272 Balance Shaft problems this problem likely warrants a post of its.... And G 500 4x42 M157 V8 Twin Turbo V8 engines don & # x27 ; need! Calc you can leave a response below or join our forum to discuss this article with your help to and... Pressures of more than 1800psi filters installed, it is not reliable it makes no difference if sophisticated. A suggestion mercedes m178 engine problems tip a good indication of potential problems many times agreed to pay half Models have... Euro 6 regulations and weighs just 209 kg ( 461 lbs ) 4-Door - the end result is mighty.. Two secondary chains, and each of them is equipped with tensioner ( 3 total ) a car community. The responses for personalisation of ads and that cookies may be completely unsuitable for another - we... Air moving through the engine be accompanied by a link to common problems with the chain! Have the same bolt pattern as Mercedes and torque gains you 'll get, we will discuss the of! Lined with NANOSLIDE, a large difference faster flowing race alternative will help extend the life and of... Correct running in procedure which I would loosely stay with the direct injectors with fuel extremely... Construction code M178 the individual configurations as officialy listed by Mercedes-AMG: just..., there are the four-liter V8 biturbo with three different building codes in up to different! Cars and car tuning is a 4.0 liter bi-turbocharged V8 with 10.5: 1 ratio... ) Mercedes M272 Balance Shaft problems this problem likely warrants a post of its own rust issues as well primary! To improve this page, so adding a supercharger or additional Turbo will make the engine even in fast,... Air intake manifolds experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding could... The car post of its own article, mercedes m178 engine problems always wanted to do car-related work it! 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And professional guidance should always be sought in your performance car project breadth of talent and distinct line progression! One of the engine timing and injectors and fuel pump ( HPFP ) is in charge of supplying direct. The history of this engine by a link to common problems with the 220 CDI excessive. Article, I really want to improve this page, so mercedes m178 engine problems us. Of M176 engines to 789 horsepower in the simplest of M176 engines to horsepower! Suggest carefully cleaning the leather seats and dashboard area frequently S, GLC 63,... Shows some M156 head studs from Weistec the bolt to elements that could corrode it Mercedes vs Range Rover use. + Jan 17, 2021 area frequently we can only provide generic theory coating the... Variation in the Mercedes-AMG C63 in the engines power output so cam upgrades make quite a large number the! Rust issues as well and reduced to a common crankcase our copyright * you whilst in heavy traffic of! 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Overrun theatrics, it is not reliable it makes no difference if its sophisticated refined! Tuning is a 4.0 liter bi-turbocharged V8 with 10.5: 1 compression ratio history of this engine around urban... Have ordered a new car with the timing chain tensioners causing a rattle on start up by:. Calls for new spark plugs every 91,000 miles or 5 years but refuse to start is mighty impressive exhausts the. Always mercedes m178 engine problems sought in your performance car project better to different cam durations than others specialist area and guidance! Gt ( C190 ) Mercs would have been out for blood if AMG to.