Its much harder to retrieve spent brass fired from a semi-auto However many decades ago, I was a PPC competitor. Phil has over three decades of experience guiding hunters and fishermen, and understands their habits as well as anyone else alive. i think a .38 would tickle the bear more than anything. Until its needed. They only work if you have them with you. Fortunately the latter emptied his 4 Smith and Wesson Model 66 There are no stopping calibers; only stopping shots. A 300gr bullet at 1000 fps has 666 ft-lbs of energy. Next up is 44 magnum, I have 2 LAR Grizzly 44 mags, which as most of you know are simply enlarged 1911s that shoot 44 mag. They are beautiful animals I love seeing in the wild, but from a very safe distance, downwind of the bear. Yes. Just as with dangerous game rifles, using a cartridge that is too big to allow for proper shot placement isnt a wise idea; shot placement is everything. Get as informed as you can, and make the best choice you can. Texas Teens Getting Carry Licenses! Even Mountain lions, also known as pumas or cougars, interact with hundreds of species and play a direct role in balancing various habitats across the state and other parts of the U.S. My 10mm load is right at 700. Had that sow felt threatened, I wouldnt have known what hit me. Last time I was buying bulk ammo in 5.56 mm NATO, 9 mm, .40 Smith, .44 Mag and Hunters must contact a CPW office within 48 hours of a lion . Buffalo bore ammo is available, very hard hitting and lethal. To recap quickly, Phil and his husband and wife fishing clients were walking through some thick brush to approach the stream they wanted to fish, when they heard a deep woof and realized they had a bear close and angry. Lets hope that we can all avoid the threat of mauling, but if youre unfortunate enough to have it happen to you, be prepared. If you are entering bear inhabited areas, be prepared for the worst situation by having a firearm with sufficient foot-pounds to stop a bear attack. The Hornady Critical Defense .410 loads (slug + 2x .35 cal balls) are rated at 750 feet per second. 1st Bullet passed completely through the animal head to rump. 11-02-2012, 5:06 PM. The Complicated Truth About Mountain Lion Encroachment. 10 mm HAH why not hit the Bear with your Purse? LAR Grizzly 45 Win Mag. You might not have the accuracy from the first two mentioned as you would the latter, but at the close range that a bear attack would occur I think that would be a moot point. What we can do is provide a framework to understand what average conditions might look like, and whether those are reasonably viable for a shot from the average shooter to harvest a cougar or mountain lion in the fewest number of shots possible, i.e., ethically. He lives every day with brown bears and has guided to dozens if not hundreds of them. Oct. 14, 2020 6:15 PM PT. I prefer to carry a .460 Roland built on .45 Colt ACP 1911 chassis. Bye the way thats 6 rounds of death spitting out of the end of that gun ! A mountain lion was killed in the Santa Monica Mountains, becoming the first killed under the state's depredation law, a National . 7.62 mm (.32 cal) out of a necked-down 9mm case. The study found that adult male lions were more likely to kill less but bigger prey than females. A rabid animal is something you do not even want to touch. Phil, I cant locate that corner; theres a ******bear down there! Now, as surveyors, we carry machetes to cut the brush in between our survey stations, and we are rather proficient with them. In fact, a shot from a .357 caliber revolver or a shotgun at close range is more likely to kill a mountain lion than an accidental discharge . Obvious that most folks on this bog dont have a freaking clue what a 1000 + lb. Lions are very powerful and usually kill large animals, such as deer and elk. Despite the firepower, these guys all tried to avoid brown bear encounters. delivered him from a mortal fate. I am thinking a 9mm semi-auto handgun loaded with 115 grain hollow-point bullets for two-legged and four-legged attackers up to 150 pounds or so and the .44 Magnum revolver with 240 grain softpoint bullets for everything bigger than that. He has 158 grain, cast SWC and SJSP flat point, +P ammuntion that are showing 890 FPS muzzle velocity on the boxes. I wonder how much penetration that will make on a bears skull? You have entered an incorrect email address! uh://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/two-attacked-by-cougar-identified-wildlife-officials-say-predator-was-emaciated/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=article_title_1.1, https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/two-attacked-by-cougar-identified-wildlife-officials-say-predator-was-emaciated/. My other handgun, my day-to-day gun, is a well-worn Smith & Wesson Model 36, in .38 Special. A good .357 Magnum and I really like the Kimber K6s will definitely come in handy. FL). 6. The key is putting the projectile in the right spot. These people were lucky they didnt get rabies. the vast majority of industry gun writers are basically shilling new gear and tend to exist in a repetitive echo chamber with little or no practical experience. He said none. Im a pistol guy now, and except for my Ruger Super Red Hawk, I seldom shoot revolvers. The only grizzly I ever saw that was dead right there.. A friend who guided in Alaska and the northwest, that experienced a number of charges over the years, told me that at 300 yds, a well placed 06 round would do the job, at 200 yds a 300 Win. He said 45 colt loaded with a 300 grain plus hard cast bullet. I was carrying my S&W M-57 4 inch gun. The Hodgden #25 manual does show loads for a 200-grain bullet using HS6, Trap100 and HP38 powders. One guy, a native of Alaska (Marty) carried a .22 Magnum revolver. This makes cougars great jumpers, able to leap from the ground 18 feet up into a tree. I throughly tested a number of handguns and ammo two weeks before I had to kill a 900 # brown bear with a 9mm and I was confident I could stop a bear with it. The, pucker factor has a lot to do with taking over full control of,your sight-alignment, sight-picture, breathing and trigger squeeze regardless of what you are using. Look it up. A mountain lion has slaughtered 27 lambs on a farm in Northern California but did not eat a single one. I own several Casulls, but my favorite handgun is a 5-inch, custom Freedom Arms Model 83 that Ken Kelly tricked out for me. It doesnt kick as much as my .44 Rem Mag in a JP Sauer six-shooter that I used to carry on remote gold mining operations, and in a M&P Shield and Glock 21, it also serves as my concealed carry. Personally, I'd feel the best with a .44 mag, .45LC, or 45-70 in a Marlin carbine. Traveling with several other people may also help discourage a bear attacking as they usually want the least confrontation unless it is a mother bear protecting her cubs. Penetration tests have shown that load to penetrate almost exactly the same distance as a standard hardcast 44 Magnum load. That said, a single documented 9mm kill is not exactly something I would bet on winning the bear fight every time or even most of the time. Great article, even better advise-44 mag super redhawk will be on my side when the opportunity comes my way. 99% of surviving a bear attack is having the brass to stand steady enough to make a good shot. I am a handgun hunter who lives in Wyoming and hunts the Beartooth. C. After a Loss Depredation Permit Process. Yes I admit this was a freak happening. No thanks. I have skinned three browns, two grizzlies and more black bears than I care to remember. Option to use 45 colt 454 cas and 460 mag. Deerfield, IL School Superintendent Violates Illinois Law With Gun Control Call To Action, Armed Self-Defense Chronicles: When a Detroit Doctor Defended Himself and His Family Against a Racist Mob. sure, sure, sure. tell me want have you really killed lately. The Freedom Arms Model 83, in .454 Casull, in a serious piece of gear. Colorado Parks and Wildlife said the man, identified on Thursday as 31-year-old Travis Kauffman, is "recovering well" after the self-defense attack on Feb. 4. Carry the biggest gun you can for bears or charging moose. Let's dive right in. Loaded with good ammunition, either of these Smith & Wesson .44 Magnums will make excellent bear medicine. 9mm & 38? with my S&W 500 magnum. landowners can request a special permit to catch or kill a mountain lion if it has killed livestock and caused damage. rather hungry bears stalking, attacking, and then attempting to eat human beings. None of the planned gun laws have any impact on bolt-action rifles as far as I'm aware (except perhaps limiting magazine capacity if it has one), and to be extra safe you could get a bolt-action rifle without a detachable magazine. .357 magnum will probably work as long as you're not running into any bears .44 magnum is preferable. I dont recall if it ran on Discovery, National Geographic or The History Channel. Do you have a problem with this model? My resulting theory is that if you see the bear/cougar, draw your gun and do your best to avoid the encounter. Spent half my working career in Alaska, hunted, fished, hiked. But also a few manufacturers that load plus P 45 Colt rounds that are every bit as powerful as the 44 magnum. Its a free country Plinker you are free to engage in Prayer, Ritual and Incantations by the light of the moon. Mountain lions weigh up to 198lbs, reach 30 mph at top speed, and only bite with a force of about 400 PSI. I have had experience with all of them and know he is right on target. Both are excellent sidearms but leave something to be desired when confronting big game in the boonies. It definitely works. A large bore hot load can be a challenge to control and difficult for multiple shots, while something like a 10mm in a good semi-auto allows for powerful rounds and multiple shots rapidly fired on target for many. If you did, you wouldnt be even considering spray or a souped up .32 pistol round as your primary weapon of bear defense Cripes, just go to zoo and imagine the zoo born and/or raised sleeping pile of fur your looking at, being really pissed off at you, or just curious, and has a closing velocity of over 30 mph. Changing, yes, but then you look at the ravages of the recent volcanoes and all the CO2 released. Between 3- and 3.5-inch-wide tracks. feral hogs No mention here of my favorite back woods carry gun, a 50 cal Desert Eagle. Of course the welfare of humans (the public) must always come last. People started carrying bear spray in that area. I have both the Governor and a Public Defender Judge, but no steel framed .45 Long Colt guns. I wouldnt recommend anything less than .44 mag or equivalent. In a close encounter this bear would have had enough time to kill me with no problem. It seems to be a matter of carrying largest caliber you can for the situation, with the proviso that you be able to deliver sufficient rounds on target. Penetration and shot placement are king. thank you kindly for sharing your extensive knowlege and guidance.I would be interested in your opinion of Underwood extreme penetrator cartridge 44 mag or 45 lc as to changing the attitude of a not well intentioned any bear . Crossdraw holster. a lot of hunting forums ive read recommend at least .357 for the wilderness and thats the bare minimum for small to somewhat medium game/predators. However, they also prove a nuisance to local livestock. Teardrop-shaped toes. Hard cast bullet are the best for bear defense, they will penetrate like nothing else out there. .38 Special is great fun for plinking, but I would never rely on it for self defense unless I use the +P Liberty Civil Defense 50 grain out of a 4 which reportedly is at 2000 FPS. Ultimately, some gun is better than no gun, and too much gun that youre unable to get proficient with is a problem. A 10-year-old boy was killed by a mountain lion while hiking near Grand Lake in 1997, and an adult runner was killed in Idaho Springs in 1991. Its been years since Ive regularly shot revolvers. Some of the 480loads tested in wet newspaper penetrate further than 338 win mag, with a fraction of the recoil, which means quick and accurate initial and follow up shots. 400g hornady JHP on a 300lb hog shot from front, while laying prone, went through the shoulder, traveled full length of body and exited hind-quarter over 2.5 feet of thick, dense, penetration. Yes and no.. Youre 100% correct. Scientific Evidence regarding bear spray?.. That being said I would never recommend a .22 for bear protection or hunting. It was there all night and broke its leg, trying to get free. Oaf commented on the case strength, I personally use Starline cases mostly, and have not had a failure yet, however I do only use those cases for 2 heavy loadings, and then relegate them to lesser cowboy loads. Since Proposition . A shotgun with buck shot would be handy if it is in your yard. feral dogs 44 mag or most any other caliber in those ranges if the person using it knows how to shoot. Colt Magnum June 7, 2018 At 19:23. The 400gr cowboy loads are mild and I could shoot them all day. Bye the time you get out a can of spray and start squirting it at a charging bear, and it starts burning his eyes he will be swallowing your nice juicy rump roast ! Listed were all the big names but one very powerful handgun was not mentioned. The cowboy loads are mild and fun to shoot and loaded with 300 plus grain hot loads it is very similar to a 44 mag. I have seen that cartridge fail horribly on black bears and hogs. Bullets dont tend to divert in the wind at the necessary defensive distances. The 357 magnum is able to kill a bear much better then the 9mm and the 38 special even though they actually shoot the same bullets. A perfect shot to the brain may stop a griz or black bear with a smaller caliber but you cant count on a perfect shot every time. A brown bears a Swiss mil-spec mugger, with built-in armor all over, especially around the brain. A few years back I went to Alaska, rented a 44 pickup camper,& spent 6 weeks in the boondocks, with only my wife. 1400+ fpm with a 140-grain FMJ bullet out of a 4.5-inch barrel. Ive chronoed this load at 1325fps, its kickass on Elk. I am playing with a m69 Smith and Wesson 44 mag. Most exhibit the same irrational fear of bears as the rest of the country and irrational fear does little to generate rational ideas. Somewhere in my Paper Archives I have the Professors commentary and a stages of a Bear attack and at what point in his own words .. it is time to Shoot the Bear. If we had a true list of every cartridge throughout history that killed a bear we would surely be suprised by dozens of them! Great advice. I do not shoot rabid animals in the head for fear of spreading the rabies virus from the brain, I do not know if this is true or not but thats what Ive been told. You need to shoot a few of the +Ps every Spring to remember where they are hitting. Id be packing heat. I dont plan to go out in the woods or scrubs any more but the S&W 629 with a 8 & 3/8 barrel Ive owned for 25 years will serve me well against black bears or hogzillas here in sunny Florida should the need arise. My hunting partner puts his faith in the Colt .45, and it will get the job done. bullets would probably only allow one shot, one handed. not litter the landscape. 45 & 9mm do not get past the fat layer to break bones and damage vital organs. That being said, I would carry both. May 12, 2018. With speed loaders in the hands of a competent shooter, the revolver can be reloaded almost as quickly as a pistol. I would rather have a .44 mag with a 6 barrel or the 454 Casull but it was a practical upgrade and is light enough with 5 rounds to carry on long hikes. I just want to compliment you for making an extremely intelligent decision. I started reloading and when the bear got to about 12 yards, I dropped my percussion cap in the leaves. 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